Chelle Coury is Global Senior Program Manager at Fitbit. Fitbit is a small device that holds a lot of content, and that content needs translating. Fitbit tracks sleep cycles, heart rate, offers fitness guidance and weight insight, to name a few features.
Currently based out of Singapore, Chelle joined Fitbit 4 years ago and found a fragmented and decentralized localization process that desperately needed optimization. Since then, she and her team have worked to centralize the translation and localization process, overcoming the challenges of screen size and context to help make Fitbit a globally recognizable brand. Chelle joins us today to discuss how she got into localization, the physical challenges of the device display, and how she tactically unified departments in order to lay the foundation to provide top tier in-language content to every person who wears a Fitbit activity band around their wrists.
Chelle also unpacks how her keen interest in data science enabled her to drive language translation A/B tests, and divulges both common and high-level considerations for the software development cycle that you can take and use to achieve success in your own translation program.
So what are you waiting for? Press play!
What you’ll learn in this episode:
- How Chelle unified several internal departments at Fitbit and the challenges she overcame during the process of implementing localization and globalization across the company.
- Insights as to how data informs large scale decisions at Fitbit.
- Examples of different content types at Fitbit and how they all work together to give people better quality of life.
- How Chelle thinks about translation and localization on a global scale end user experience not when the product has been built but before in the planning and design phase and making it part of the early stage development
- Different stages and elements of the software development cycle and localization at Fitbit.
- Tips for ensuring code is set up for internationalization.
What to listen for
[01:28] How Chelle ended up as an expat in Singapore.
[03:50] The methods Chelle is using to learn French.
[05:26] Chelle’s path to localization and Fitbit.
[06:34] What the localization process looked like four years ago and what needed optimization.
[09:30] Creating easily marketable copy for other territories.
[11:32] The main challenges of centralizing the localization process.
[13:56] The physical scale challenges that the Fitbit device range presents for localization.
[14:55] Product localization and translation challenges.
[18:00] The types of content Chelle finds most enjoyable to work on.
[23:00] The process of reviewing translations and displays before release.
[26:20] The importance of planning for the global end user experience from the beginning.
[28:50] Doing constant context review of content.
[30:40] What takeaways and advice Chelle has for the software development cycle.
Keep up to date with Chelle and Fitbit
- Chelle’s LinkedIn.
- Fitbit’s site, app, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn.
- Smartling Website
- Contact Adrian Cohn at Smartling
Full Transcript that almost certainly has typos (forgive us!)
Announcer: You're listening to The Loc Show presented by Smartling.
Adrian Cohn: Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Loc Show. I am in New York. It's August and it is hot, hot, hot outside, so I'm really happy to be indoors right now chatting with Chelle Coury. Chelle is part of the technical program management team at Fitbit responsible for localization and I'm excited about this chat because as you know, Fitbit's product isn't that big, it sits on your wrist, so there isn't a whole lot of space for content. Nonetheless, you can get information about your sleep cycle, heart rate, fitness guidance, weight insights, and of course, you can get the time, just to name a few features that you can get on a Fitbit, and Fitbit, by the way, they translate all of this content. But how do they do it? Let's dive in with Chelle right now. Chelle, it's so great to have you on The Loc Show. Thanks for being here.
Chelle Coury: Thank you for having me, Adrian.
Adrian Cohn: Yeah. You are dialing in from Singapore, which makes you one of three guests now who've been on the show from the Asia Pacific region. How did you get to Singapore?
Chelle Coury: Yes, I'm originally from the US and I just decided I wanted to be an ex-pat somewhere. I hadn't lived elsewhere and Singapore, I've been coming here every quarter for Fitbit, and so I decided to make it a move and it's easier because it is English, or Singlish, so it made it really nice to make that move. We do have an office here, and yeah, I just love Asia. It's really beautiful.
Adrian Cohn: The only other country that I have had the chance to live in other than the United States is England and I lived there for about a half-year during college. I did a study abroad and similarly, it was one of the few countries that was primarily English-speaking that I felt like I could go to. I love language and I think it's funny that I now work for a language translation company and I don't speak another language, but I thought it was important to live elsewhere and I really enjoyed my experience. I've also been to Singapore. I think that would have worked out for me as well.
Chelle Coury: Yes, I love it here. I mean, ultimately, I will end up probably in France, being my fiance's French, or in Spain somewhere, somewhere in Europe, so I figured now I'll take advantage of being able to be in Asia, have the English, feel like an ex-pat elsewhere without feeling isolated a bit, because I don't have my French completely down yet, I am learning, and my Spanish is subpar and it's more of the Latin American Spanish, so it's definitely an experience and it helps me work my way into being an ex-pat where it is a different language, so I hear you there. England's wonderful. I do end up going there for Fitbit as well on occasion and I can see how that just makes it easier.
Adrian Cohn: Yeah, yeah. Well, it is The Loc Show, so we talk about language quite a bit. You said your French is coming along. How are you learning how to speak French? Is it just working with your fiance or are you using an app? How is the education coming?
Chelle Coury: Oh, no, I would definitely not work with my fiance on it because that would require us having to speak different languages and get probably a little frustrated on it, so what I do is definitely, I've tried everything. I've tried Duolingo, different apps, I have taken classes, I went to the French school in San Francisco when I was living there. I've just attempted all the different avenues to see what works best for me and I find that I am not disciplined to force myself to study via a free app as easily as having someone that I'm accounted to, like I have to be on a schedule, so now I have someone that speaks the language and they're over Skype, so I can do a class maybe twice a week and you can leverage the classes how you want them to learn. It's helping. And then also, trying to speak with his parents has helped.
Adrian Cohn: When you get dropped into France one day when you decided to live there, you'll learn it pretty quickly, I think.
Chelle Coury: Exactly. I feel like it's harder to learn a language unless you're immersed in it, but through working in localization, you learn about all the differences and all the nuances of those languages, which I find is really interesting and it helps you. It'll maybe all connect it once I have that new language in my repertoire, so we'll see.
Adrian Cohn: How did you get into localization?
Chelle Coury: As I mentioned, I was in the US and I currently live in Singapore, but I grew up just traveling a lot and I love to travel, I love culture, and it led me to just truly love the idea of being in localization. How it came about was really interesting. I'm actually part of the technical program management team at Fitbit and so with that, you end up putting processes in place across different organizations and trying to bridge those gaps across the different departments. One of the departments that needed help was localization, so I volunteered my time there and it was only to be 50%, but I found I enjoyed it so much that I took it on fully. It's definitely a full-time position, so it was really interesting. It was just really interesting to me, so I had to continue down that path and now it's been four years.
Adrian Cohn: If we rewind four years and we go back to that moment where you were asked to take on localization for 50% of your time as part of this project, what was going on? What did the localization program look like and what did you quickly uncover about the process that you felt needed some optimization?
Chelle Coury: That's a good question. At the time, I was working with data science and localization and it made it clear to me that we didn't have enough data science set up to do A and B testing across different locales. That's one thing that really struck me because that means we're really leveraging what we learned primarily from the US base, so expanding that was a key initiative I wanted to bring into place, but also, I saw that we had marketing terminology being translated in its own vendor's platform, customer support in a separate platform, so everything was isolated. The consistency across the languages was not taking place. You could be calling the band of a Fitbit "rose" in marketing and that gets translated and then in customer support, it's called "pink," and it's not being translated well, so if someone's looking for something, they're not going to find it.
Adrian Cohn: They thought there would be two products and they couldn't figure out what the match was.
Chelle Coury: Exactly, so in seeing that it was all separate, my first goal was to get everyone into one platform and that's where we used Smartling, the Switzerland. We wanted to get everyone, all the different vendors and all of the different copy that's coming through into Smartling and then from there, we were able to clean up, not dictionaries, clean up the glossary, I mean, really leverage the translation memory because now can have a consistent voice across all the different departments, from legal, regulatory, marketing, product, customer support, you name it, and this way, not only were we getting a better cost savings, but it was better consistency and better quality in the end, so we are now there, we think. I would say about 90%, 80%, 85 to 90%, really. It's a work in progress because there are some areas, obviously, and marketing videos and different details that have to be outside of the platforms and then what we do with those is we will do a translation memory sync at the end, so ultimately, that was the key issue I saw when I joined.
Adrian Cohn: There's a lot there. I mean, it sounds like when you started, though, it's really interesting. You had this data science interest in localization and you couldn't figure out how or why AB testing wasn't a part of the market experience or marketing experience for Fitbit in other regions that didn't carry the English flag and that was sort of your impetus for saying, "Well, hold on. Where do we get the data? How do we use the data to start managing some AB tests and making this a little bit of a more efficient process?"
Chelle Coury: Yes, that area, though, it has not been completely driven yet. I mean, we are now leveraging that more, so I was able to work with the teams to say we should consider that area, but I think that as soon as I saw how fragmented all of the different departments were, that became my main focus after that, but the initial intrigue was definitely on the A and B testing, and then now, it's aligning each team with having a data science representation would be the next step there for all the different teams and what they want to get out of that, but my main focus has been primarily on the copy itself, the localization front, the transcreation, and just leveraging the best of our translation memory in there and getting the quality at a higher place, too, because ultimately, even if you put in the A and B testing, if the language doesn't translate, if it's not resonating, you're not going to get the feedback you're looking for.
Adrian Cohn: Yeah, okay, so now I understand better. You went in with the interest of how does the data influence our decisions, but then you realize, "Well, hold on, we have to go backwards first. We need to get all of this stuff operational," and that's what you've been focused on. What did you learn, Chelle, when you were doing that? Maybe a better question is: What were some of the challenges that you ran into in centralizing Fitbit's localization process, which you already said, it's spanning multiple different content types and experiences and we all know who Fitbit is. I mean, this is a big organization with lots of products, so it's not like centralizing this would have been simple to do and there's certainly a lot of content that has to be managed under the expectations of such a well-branded organization.
Chelle Coury: I would say one of the biggest challenges was exactly that, trying to create that consistency and making sure that we have the proper terminology being used. If things are happening at different times, of course, different departments have different deadlines, and so ensuring that we had the voice coming from, I would say marketing primarily because you want to ensure what it's being marketed on is how we're reading it elsewhere and if that area is being done at a later time than, say, the script for the actual copy itself in customer support or in product, we have to then backtrack and do a global search and replace and clean it up. Another challenge, I think, especially for, I mean, for Fitbit specifically is ensuring things can fit on the device itself. Think about traditional Chinese. The characters are so detailed that on a device, depending on how large that word will be or how lengthy the sentence will be, to be able to get it to fit on a small watch and still be legible was a definite... You have to make sure that the screen display has the proper resolution. It was definitely an area of concern to make sure that that works. In fact, our first scale that we had, we didn't go out with traditional Chinese, our scales ever since then have, because of that specific issue at hand and I think that that's definitely something that we found interesting and are learning from all the different teams on firmware.
Adrian Cohn: When you say "scale," you're talking about the size of the watch face, the first version?
Chelle Coury: No, an actual scale, an actual step-on scale.
Adrian Cohn: Oh, I see.
Chelle Coury: We actually have Fitbit scales as well, so all of our devices, we've been able to get the resolutions to a place that allows for traditional Chinese and these different languages, but our first-ever scale that went out, it was working with the resolution of the screen that traditional Chinese ended up just being a little bit too cloudy, I would say. That was the first, that was many years ago, but ever since then, we've been able to ensure the higher-quality resolution to be able to read traditional Chinese on... You have to be able to read it from standing up, too.
Adrian Cohn: Yeah, from, let's say four foot to, I don't know, seven-foot-tall?
Chelle Coury: Six foot, yeah.
Adrian Cohn: There's some tall people out there, right?
Chelle Coury: Exactly.
Adrian Cohn: Well, that's a unique challenge. What were some of the challenges? I mean, I understand the resolution of the screen may not have rendered the characters, but what other challenges have you run into and trying to localize the actual product? Because the product is a wearable device, or as you've mentioned, a scale that one can step on. It's a small screen. I mean, I'm not saying it's too small. It's a small device, it's on your wrist, so what were some of the translation challenges and how did you overcome those?
Chelle Coury: A lot of the translation challenges with our devices are primarily going to be from an internationalization standpoint, meaning the coding has to be set up in a way to properly translate, so to speak, like the proper [inaudible 00:15:45] locale formats, so I would say making sure that for Indonesia, for instance, their date formatting or their time formatting is going to be different than that of the way the US does it and it's even different from that most of the European countries do it, so making sure that we set up the internationalization to adhere to these locale default standards is key. Additionally, length. Let's look at German, for instance. A German word can be very, very long, or Italian sentences or Japanese sentences, so it can get very lengthy and making sure that fits without having all of the devices scroll marquis is key. Then I'm really excited about our future with this, but I'm really curious how we're going to handle this going into Thai if we leverage... I don't know if you've ever been to Thailand and seen, some of the language is just so long. I don't know. Getting it to fit on a device is going to be really interesting. Also, right to the left support, so the internationalization, setting up the code to support that to go into Arabic, and when you're trying to reach such a large audience, it's not just reaching different languages, it's reaching different ages, so if you're going to be speaking to, or having it for seniors, let's say, or children, you're going to have a different way that you speak to them. With French, for instance, you need the formal way to speak with the "vous" and then with children, you speak in the familiar, so there's a lot of different nuances that have to be considered when you're making these edits to your device and when you're actually trying to the firmware, the firmware being for the Fitbit device itself, and the glyphs for the characters in place to be able to reach such a large audience.
Adrian Cohn: All right, so Chelle, can you help us? Can you break it down for me? We've got a lot of different types of content. Can you go through the different content types and then maybe tell me a little bit about the ones that are the most interesting for you to be working on every day?
Chelle Coury: Yes, so we cover everything from exercise types, biking, swimming, jogging, running, to step count, calories burned, heart health, mindfulness tools, sleep data, Spotify, weather, wallet, you name it. There's a lot that goes into each area, and I think that my favorite areas would probably be the mindfulness tools. I do like the relax app. We have a relax app, you can choose a two minute or a five-minute session, and that's just the basic app. When you go into the more in-depth tools that we have for mindfulness, it gets into a whole plethora of goodness there, but the relax app itself, I would do it during a meeting. Let's say, if you're in a high-stress meeting or you're in a very big meeting that you're a little nervous or anxious about, I would press the two-minute relax app and it just slightly vibrates on your wrist and you breathe in and breathe out, so at the beginning, it shows you what your heart rate was, and at the end, it shows you your heart rate and it's always lowered it and just let me pace myself and get into a better mindset. I really love that one. Then the heart health coverage is really a good one as well. Spotify, having that, or being able to use it, or the wallet to be able to pay for anything is great, and the exercise, what's cool about that is you don't have to manually input anything. You can go for a bike ride and when you get back, it shows you an outdoor bike, outdoor biking, and then it'll tell you how many calories you burned. Were you in your peak active zone minutes, which is when your heart rate is at a specific level, that you're in a certain zone? There's a fat-burning zone and there are different zones that you want to hit and then you can set yourself different goals to be able to reach those. It's especially important right now, I feel, while we're in quarantine, considering we're all working from home a little bit more, a little bit more stagnant, not moving as much, so having these different activity-centric goals in mind that this device keeps you on track for has really helped and if you have a challenge mindset, if you like to... Like my mom, she's very competitive. If you want to compete with other people or do a bingo game of sorts where you have to hit specific categories and see who wins, it fires you up to help you hit these goals, too, and then see the results, which is always rewarding.
Adrian Cohn: Do you have had any of these challenges going on right now with friends or family other than your mom?
Chelle Coury: I did one with my fiance the other day for bingo and it was kind of funny. They give you different layouts and that one, I obviously was testing the app itself, and so looking at all these different details from the Fitbit perspective, from my localization perspective, so I wasn't running or running around as much, but it really... I don't know, it's just fun. I would set it at a higher time, right, next time, because giving yourself only one hour or one day, I'd rather give it more time to actually hit the goal, so that one was one. Another one I did with my mom was back when I was flying a lot and she would purposely set it to try to hit a certain step count when she knew I'd be on an airplane.
Adrian Cohn: Mm-hmm (affirmative), so she's-
Chelle Coury: So, she'd win every time.
Adrian Cohn: ... She's really gamifying this for herself. I got it.
Chelle Coury: Right.
Adrian Cohn: When you set this up with your fiance, obviously, you guys are together a lot now. Is he using the Fitbit in French?
Chelle Coury: He is not, surprisingly. I do have him switch it to French or German on occasion because he speaks both to check things for me, but no, he primarily just uses it in English. He has lived in the US for so long and I think it's just his go-to.
Adrian Cohn: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, here's a top tip for everyone listening: If you need an in-country reviewer, just find a fiance who speaks a different language, and voila, you'll have someone at your left-hand, right-hand side your whole life.
Chelle Coury: There you go. I would say that actually brings back to the point of challenges with the different devices. We do one thing that's called "LQA blitzes." That's where you get the different countries where you get everyone to look over every screen on the device before we launch a new product.
Adrian Cohn: Tell me about that. That sounds cool.
Chelle Coury: That's been a real challenge. That is something that we'll have to look into how to scale it, of course, but each device, every language we cover for those devices, they all have their different nuances, right, so what I would do is I'd meet with the European teams and the EMEA languages and I have all of them because initially, we did it where everyone was, we had APAC and EMEA, and what you'd find is a lot of the issues APAC runs into are not the same that EMEA runs into, so the Asian languages might have, we go through a lot of the screens and it's a breeze. Everything looks great, everything's fitting just fine, but then we'd have to spend an hour or two longer on German, or an hour or two longer on the different languages, which doesn't make for a very efficient meeting, so we separated those out and review them at different paces, but it's been really interesting. We get a team to pull the screenshots and we review them. I think this is mandatory across any product that's being displayed. I think that even if you have it set up so that your engineers are providing the screens from design into Smartling so that when the translators see it, they see it in the context, even if you do that, which that is key, and that definitely helps and it's not always the case, even if you do that, you should always look at it at the end, the end result of what it will look like on the device, pull the screens at the end, because it sometimes doesn't fit still or where there's different scaling dimensions that were used for it from the design team. That's what we do at the end before, just to make sure it's a true quality output product before we released, and that's been exciting and challenging, I would say. We've added six new languages recently, Romanian, Indonesian and Russian, Czech, Polish, Portuguese, so I think that in adding those languages, we also have now a third section that we need to be covering and the more languages we add, it's going to be harder to meet with these teams and cover this, so finding remote ways is key, and right now, it's perfect time to find all these remote ways, so we have different teams that will pull screenshots and I feel like getting that automation down is key. Gosh, I can go into a million different things that would really help me make a quality product in the end and from a language standpoint, you can just, I mean, it all starts from the core. It all starts with how we engineer it, how do we set up the code, and the design team working directly with the copy team, working directly with the engineering team to get that uploaded into Smartling properly to reduce a lot of the bugs that will result in the end.
Adrian Cohn: So, you're talking about the whole process of thinking about translation and localization, the global end-user experience, not when the product has been built, but before the product's been built, thinking about it in the planning phase, the design phase, and making that part of the early-stage development of a product?
Chelle Coury: Exactly. I think localization really hits the beginning and the end of products. It's setting it up properly and then it's the end result to see it because you have to wait until all of the design is through, all of the engineering is done, all the copy has been done in English and approved and published before you can even translate it and then you have to review, so there's a big gap in that SDLC, in the software to device life cycle. I would be included in the beginning of it to make sure everything's being set up properly, they know what languages are going to be covered, and then there's going to be a long lull between that the teams are working on everything, and then it's not until the end, probably about two months or one month before code freeze, so right after feature freeze where you really get back into the localization aspect of it again. Obviously, translations are happening throughout, but it's at the end when you want to really take it and look at it from a full end-to-end picture before releasing a product.
Adrian Cohn: Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense, and I'd actually love to hear the different stages that you've got worked out and what activities you primarily engage in at the different stages, that would be really interesting to hear about, but there is so much to be said for looking at a final product on the device. Even today, I was having a chat with one of my colleagues about an email that we're going to send out to people, you may have actually already received it if you're listening, and the conversation was my colleague, Katie, she said, "Adrian, I think the email you wrote, I think it's too long." I said, "Well, why don't we take out this paragraph, take out that paragraph, but let's put it into the email product and let's look at it in context, let's see if it actually is too long," because I don't know. It didn't seem like it was to me, but it did seem like it was to Katie, and I haven't actually seen the test of this, but once I do, I'm sure we're going to make changes because that's usually what happens. Once you see it in context, things end up changing.
Chelle Coury: Definitely, and I will say that's something I've noticed ever since I've been working in localization. I tend to elaborate all my emails. I tend to. I primarily work with engineers in the past, especially, so I like to keep things short and pretty curt and clear and concise, but ever since I've been working with linguists and copywriters, you have to give extra context and you have to really explain things into different ways to make sure it resonates, make sure it makes sense. I mean, we could say in English a lot of colloquialisms that others may not know, so "Your steps are toast" may not make sense in all these languages, so I have to give a lot of different, "Oh, this is what we mean," and then you have to give multiple meetings, so I've found that all of my emails have started to get so long because I tend to now elaborate and provide all this context to everything that I say. It's interesting because you find that you switch gears in that route, depending on who your audience is, of course, so I have to take a step back to think, "Who is my audience? Should I be shortening this?" Then I don't like putting that "Too long, don't read," because that... You know that-
Adrian Cohn: Mm-hmm (affirmative), the TLDR, yeah.
Chelle Coury: ... I'll put it sometimes. Yeah, I'll put it sometimes, but then I put in parentheses "unless you want to." Yeah.
Adrian Cohn: Yeah, that acronym threw me in multiple directions at one point until I finally remembered what it meant, but anyhow, tell me quickly, Chelle, because we're going to wrap up in a few minutes here, but tell me a little bit about the software development cycle. Where do you see localization as part of that and what can we learn from that?
Chelle Coury: I think that where a big learning and a big takeaway for a lot of companies could be, is making sure first off that the code is set up in a way to handle, setting it up in internationalization to handle languages, even if you're not ready or don't plan on going into those languages because that will help you in the long run. If you don't think you'll be going into Arabic, one day if you do decide to, at least you're set up to support right to left. Having to retrofit that is a lot more work. Then also, making sure, what we've done is through the Smartling API connection, we've had it where everything is so automatically translated for the teams that they don't necessarily need to pay attention. It's like, "Oh, it went in?" You know, the Jenkins job? Hold it in and it released my translations I need. But I think there's a big part that needs to focus on once it's inside Smartling, there are still going to be questions from the translators: "Well, what does this mean? How many words? What's the max character count length for this?" or "What is that placeholder?" if there's a coding placeholder that will insert be a number of steps you have. "What does this stand for?" These questions need answered, so every engineer or copywriter or product owner should take part in the full cycle, not just the beginning and the end, but the process throughout of just making sure that they're getting those answers, that'll move the translations along. I think that's definitely helpful, and then also having it where design might be tweaking things up until the end before release. But even if it's tweaking it by providing those initial designs with the copy when the English copy is uploaded, it really helps translators. It helps them see and understand where different things are going to be. If we read the word back, they'll know, from the context, from the image that you mean to go back, not a physical body part back, which it very well could be in a Fitbit realm, so I think that those are different key elements throughout the software life cycle that should be considered and included. Then getting copy finalized at least a month before a code freeze is key because you want to give two weeks turnaround for depending on the amount of content for questions that might come up and the translations and whatnot and then also be able to review it potentially, or make sure that it got through into the code for the functionality testing, so I think that getting copywriting up a little bit sooner and aligning them with getting copywriters aligned with localization teams is key. It also helps them know to reuse terms a lot, which will give you a cost savings and different details that they may not have thought of based on some of our normal English-speaking ways, like the colloquialisms I mentioned before, different things we may say, and it's fine for us, but it may not translate well, so we have to provide that context. I think those are some key learnings in the software life cycle. I hope I answered your question correctly, but...
Adrian Cohn: Well, I mean, you've uncovered a lot of amazing information there and you've alluded to the intricacies of the translation process that are required to support a product that is as global as Fitbit, so you've more than answered the question. You've provided us with deep insights into the different things that you do at different stages and it's important, I think, for others to hear this because some people may not know. There are definitely some listeners to this show that have just entered translation and localization, or they may be new to the field, but there may also be very tenured listeners who are just curious to know, how did Fitbit do this? How did Fitbit make this localization program work and how did it support the brands that Fitbit has been known to be over the past many years here? So, thank you for sharing that and thank you also for just sharing your time with us today. I've really enjoyed our chat today on The Loc Show, Chelle.
Chelle Coury: Thank you, Adrian. Likewise.
Adrian Cohn: Thank you, thank you, thank you to Chelle Coury for being an amazing guest on The Loc Show. It was so much fun to catch up with Chelle. We've met a few times at conferences in San Francisco in the past and it was great to learn more about how she leveraged Smartling to manage language translation at Fitbit. I appreciate your tuning in today. I hope you're having a great summer. Thank you and see you next week.